Sitting in the back of the bus listening to your iPod?

[thoreau]

Joe Behr over on his journal asked to questions:

1) The past seven years (in the U.S., anyway) have numbed us to politics and civic life. We've turned in and focused on the things over which we still have some control.

2) Whatever our relative place in the scheme of things, many of us are privileged white boys who need to get over - and pay attention to something other than - ourselves.

I think the problem? Is that gay men in America - sit on their asses - and don't get involved. They love to bitch - but ask them to do something about it in real time - and they continue to sit on their ass. I think we need to pay REAL attention to ourselves - when even minimal political ACTION vs. chatter on our blogs - - could accomplish real power rather than virtual power that has no value in the real world.


It's been MUCH longer than just the last seven years that politics have been nauseating and absurd. I think it's been at least since 1980 when Reagan was first elected - American Politics has been a polarized MESS ever since.

People talk like Bill Clinton was such a boom for gay people? Since when? It's not like Bill Clinton accomplished anything for gay people while he was in office.

He signed the Defense of Marriage Act into law. He instituted "Don't Ask Don't Tell" which created a worse atmosphere for gay people in the military. The degree of official and unofficial attempts to separate gay people from the armed forces seems to be directly related to the personnel needs of the armed forces - even in Iraq. Gay rights have not been at the front of the bus YET in American Politics accept to scare American conservatives in the 2000 and 2004 elections.

The Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush span of 28 years of political life? Is that gays are only pulled out as a political card to accomplish something else. I voted for Clinton the first time - because as a sailor that WAS beaten for being gay and forced out - I heard him talking about my rights as a citizen. Then he went into office and signed my marriage rights away - and then did nothing to forward the legal equality of gay people in America.

So - if we hate American politics so much - what are we doing to change that? Most gay americans are sitting on their duffs and doing NOTHING. Not one envelope stuffed - not one call made to a family member to discuss issues - not one check made out to their local or national gay rights advocacy group. Because we're privileged boys with toys (for the most part) - it seems to me we feel like our equality in America is going to come to us on a silver platter.

After living in Idaho for 10 years - I'll tell you - it's not. There are people out there ACTIVELY seeking ways to remove our rights and KEEP US discriminated against.

I think - back to your point - that we don't care about ourselves and our community enough? Why don't we write checks? Why DON'T we volunteer in our communities? Why are we a discriminated against class of Americans - that seem lazy and apathetic to change things?

That local rights organizations close from lack of funds in "red states" is atrocious. That we spent $150 on lattes a month (minimum) but can't write our assemblyman or local cause a check - is atrocious.

I think gay men in particular - could gain a lot of power in this country if they loved themselves enough to simply get involved even at the most minimum level. Write a letter to your local paper. Write your congressman.

Anything is better than bitching about Project Runway fauxpas instead of reading your voters pamphlet and understand the REAL issues. Anything is better than blogging adnauseum about wanting rights - wanting to be at the front of the bus - but then sitting there on your ass and listening to your iPod silently in the back of the bus. I'm not saying - if you aren't doing something - "sit down and shut up" - - I'm saying the absolute opposite. If you aren't doing something? You ask yourself WHY THE HELL NOT?!

---

boyshapedbox? I read your post today - and hear you loud and clear. I'm leaving comments on this entry to hear dialogue - and hear what people have to say. I'm not posting this in the face of your heartfelt comments. You're a good man for your post today - if nobody has told you that yet.

Comments

[joebehrsandiego.livejournal.com]

Robert - as mentioned over in my LJ, I agree but think we need to empathize and interalize what these years have done to so many, many people ... and band with and work with them. Mike/wileecoyote6 put it pretty eloquently in my journal today ... as good as I ever could.

Many thanks for both caring, and doing.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I think the friction point Joe? is that people choose to be 'subconscious' about politics. They choose to sleep through it. They choose to sit back and accept "there is nothing I can do about it" - when that could not be farther from the truth. Like when in Dune - the finally AWAKENED Paul Atriedes says to the sky "FATHER THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED" it's an allegory for a priviledged prince who had everything who is finally a) awakened to the reality around him - and b) about to launch out and do something extraordinary. Gay men - the "queer community" in America need to do more for themselves.

There has been a lot of action - yes. It takes CONSCIOUSNESS. How did people vote to discriminate against gays in 45 states? They sleepwalked to the polls and did what their pastor said or voted "what party" their family votes for. Not only do GAY people need to wake up and become CONSCIOUS about politics - but straight people that vote with blinders on.... need to wake up too.

I think being spoiled people in a overtly rich nation - we do a great deal of our lives - completely utterly asleep. There can be no other reason that gas goes up 500% - our president spends us into a chasm so deep - and Americans don't get angry - and chase the fuckers out of town politically.

You hit a nerve today with your questions - and for me - there is no justification... particularly as gay men or any discriminated against minority? to remain asleep ANY longer.

[jwg.livejournal.com]

I think it isn't quite as bad as you portray. In Massachusetts after the Supreme Court Marriage decision there was extensive lobbying by large number of people, bolstered by several GLBT organizations who worked together instead of fighting as often happens (I think this was a key element). The end result was that the anti same-sex marriage constitutional amendment was soundly defeated. And while doing this public and politician's opinion about gay people and issues improved tremendously. No legislator who supported our cause lost an election and several of the anti's did.

Another chapter is on its way now because there is legislative action to add transgender equality to the various anti-discrimination laws. We'll see how that works out.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I agree that Massachusetts is an incredible testament to organizations and the power of politics. But - what about in the 26 states where the anti-same-sex marriage constitutional amendments did pass by OVERWHELMING numbers - like Idaho? My last political season there - I saw the Family Research Council pour MILLIONS into Idaho - while the HRC brought no political funds or organizations to Idaho.

I'm not saying that the forward movement in Massachusetts isn't AMAZING but that's only one state in 50. I don't want to devalue the incredible outcome of your fight there, handsome. I really am not.

but - I think it's the exception to the rule. and I wish we could be experiencing Massachusetts-like results - everywhere else.

Is my only choice to move to Massachusetts or to Connecticut, Vermont, New Jersey, California, and New Hampshire where they have created legal unions that, while not called marriages, are explicitly defined?

thats still just six/eight states that are working to bring gay people to the same rights boundary.... (sigh)

[boyshapedbox.livejournal.com]

Thank you sweetheart :)

[daddycoug.livejournal.com]

I know we've never met, but I feel like I know you (I even dreamt about you and a couple LJers I've never met either) I've voted every election since I turned 18, and I grew up in Idaho and spent the first 23 years of my life there, so I know how backwards it is. But with their mentality in places like that, and the death threats you get for speaking out...I think that's why so much bad shit gets passed in those states.

I'm one of those people that reads the voting guide from front to back, follows the news everyday, discusses politics with customers where I work. But the last few elections I have had no time at all to read the voter's guide. I haven't had much time to read for my own personal enjoyment. I think that with the past 7 years of us shifting towards a dictatorship, there are people like me that have started speaking out, but the status quo in Congress isn't listening because of corporate interests and self serving interests like to be re-elected.

I think what our government needs is a dose of Milton Friedman's "Shock Doctrine" to rebuild government from the ground up with new rules and equality for all. I know this is a ramble but it's my 2 cents worth. Give Katey-Dog a hug for me :)

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

thank you :)

where do you and Rich live now if not in Idaho?

[daddycoug.livejournal.com]

Rich and I live in SF. The Church & Market neighborhood. He owns the comic shop on Castro and is on LJ as Whatever Comics. He's the beauty and I'm the brains =^,,^=

[daddycoug.livejournal.com]

I screwed that one up, it's all 1 word. WhateverComics. I've been here going on 18 years and Rich has been here 8. We celebrate our 7th anniversary on Sunday.

[broduke2000.livejournal.com]

I like to think that our radio show is somewhere in the middle. There's lots of Democrats out there who are just as corrupt as the Repulsevans, and when they get my goat, we have fun with it.

Recently we've gotten a listener who listens to Right Wing Hate Talk Radio 24/7. No matter what jokes we make up about Rep's, he goes ballistic. Any negative Demo jokes, and he's so excited, he can't fucking contain himself.

He's like a little kid. A mean little kid.

It wasn't like this when we started 12 years ago. Now, I'm certain that no matter what you, me, or any of us do, we won't change dudes like this.

And the "Hate Talk/Republicans Are Gods" format is turning out millions more dudes just like him, daily...nationwide.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

So I thought about my reactions to this post.

Stuff Robert advocates that I've done: stuffing envelopes, discussing issues with straight family members, sending money to local and national LGBT rights groups, volunteering time for groups, supporting family members who donate even more time than I do by providing income, supporting campaigns for local progressive politicians (including cute gays). Voting in every election. Putting my face in national gay magazines to show that I'm a committed dude (and living with discomfort when my name started showing up on right-wing hate sites as a result). Editing a book about one aspect of queer society. Check. Am I the kind of person Robert is upset about? Nope.

Do I see evidence of the apathy and disengagement Robert is talking about? Yes.

Among the people I know on LJ? Less so.

Do I believe that talking about things like pop culture and Project Runway a lot means that people aren't engaged in more serious issues? Not necessarily. When I ranted about Project Runway a couple of years back, one of the biggest PR fans on my friends list pointed me at some progressive blogs I didn't know about, that he read daily to stay informed. Also, I know *Robert* is politically committed, even though he writes about cooking and his dog a lot.

Stuff Robert wrote that I realized was making me angry, depressed, and turned off: "gay men in America sit on their asses .... don't get involved .... love to bitch .... hate American politics .... are privileged .... lazy and apathetic .... don't love themselves enough to get involved."

Why did this anger me when I know there is evidence of it? A) It feels like a blanket condemnation of all gay men rather than a targeted one. B) It's too close to homophobic stereotypes that would piss me off if they came from outside the community. It reminds me too much of things I have to tell myself are not true of me and most of my loved ones, almost daily, so that I can shake off despair, go forward, and keep doing the kind of work Robert advocates.

Am I personally motivated by righteous anger or harsh wakeup calls? Sometimes.

Am I usually better motivated by "here are some problems, but here's all the great things we can do more of"? Yes.

How typical am I? Unclear. I think in the social circle Robert and I move in, LESS of us are apathetic and LESS of us are motivated by anger and outrage. But I could be wrong.

Hugs to all.

[geometrician.livejournal.com]

I think the problem? Is that gay men in America - sit on their asses - and don't get involved. They love to bitch - but ask them to do something about it in real time - and they continue to sit on their ass.

Amen, brother. This riles me the most on election days when I watch people get elected and measures get passed that are damaging to our civil rights, with outcomes that could have been different if all the gay people got off their asses and voted.

I'm not talking about every single person -- and I know that you are not either -- but as a block, gay people are politically non-participative, and it pisses me off.

So a big THANK YOU to all that vote, lobby, and participate in the things that affect their lives.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I don't post like this very often (if at all these days) so I know that the tone of this post - and it's conclusions and statements are from the point of view of "WTF!" in bold 500 pt. font. I just grow weary of white gay guys (which for the most part live on the top or near the top of the power pyramid in the bigger scheme) doing nothing. It was hard to work on the frontlines back in Idaho - because the men with the assets to make the most impact were "saving to retire in Mexico" and why invest in politics here - if I'm not going to live here after my work if finished.

It's simply not enough to be informed - it has to be about 'what are you doing to affect change?'. Reading blogs and staying informed isn't necessarily enough. I think the descriptors I used could be used to describe American society as a whole - not just gay men. So I didn't see them as homophobic in the slightest. I think our straight counterparts are JUSt as lazy, apathetic and uninformed. Unless - we're talking about the religious right? and they are well organized - but they also have the pulpits to speak through. and the inappropriate use of religion in politics.

I appreciate your response Pete. I really do. I just needed to say what I did. and I'm sorry that some of it turned you off. I just wish that the enlightened folks that I know are here on our social circle on LJ - might host an envelope party - might stage a rally at their state capital. might do more than TALK about political change for gays in America.

You and I have both been there - and KNOW the intense hard work it involves. but we're the exception to the rule. We're like the Massachusetts of informed gay people - what about the 26 other states that passed anti gay amendments - and their gay populations felt powerless to stop it? thats who I worry for.

(huggage)

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I never meant to insinuate that it's all the Republicans fault or that Democrats are a saving grace at all. Thanks for your note. The astounding, intense rabidity of division in this country is sad.

[nudewoody.livejournal.com]

Robert, I am so glad to see you post this! Many of us do seem to be self-absorbed privileged white boys. I get so frustrated. The problem as I see it is the status quo. Somehow the whole damn system seems a big mess, corporatization, globalization, neo-colonialism, free-market capitalism. I feel we won't make progress or gain equity by seeking entrance into these broken institutions but must rather seek equity for everyone by a restructuring of our worldview. Often times I feel as though I am shouting into the wind.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito". (African Proverb)