Treating disrespect with even more disrespect?

[thoreau]

I will respectfully point out that a majority of you have probably never heard of Congresswoman Virginia Fox (R. - North Carolina) until today - so using words like cunt and bitch to describe someone you've heard talk for 50 seconds is unwarranted. In fact - I'd go as far as to say talking about someone like that irregardless is inappropriate; even more so in a public forum like Facebook or here on Livejournal.

These words are sexist and devaluing to any women who might reading, who might want to be part of the discussion. I have many women on my friends list both here and on Facebook, and with that - I am always very careful with my language. It is simply not an intelligent response to start screaming Cbombs with explanation marks over a clearly inappropriate speech in the House of Representatives.

How would we react if someone used those words describing Barbara Boxer or Nancy Pelosi or Patty Murray or Maria Cantwell or Hillary Clinton or any other female progressive?

I'll tell you how you might react - you'd dismiss someone using those words as incapable of any other response; and quickly tune them out.

We wouldn't want to be called faggot or some other negative word - so why do we say it's so easy and okay to use this kind of negative language on the congresswoman.

Was Congresswoman Fox disrespectful and perhaps ignorant? ABSOLUTELY!

Does she deserve the same sort of thing in return? No.

Lets try and keep our discussion about her words. We can spend time discussing the appropriateness of her speech on the floor of the House of Representatives without resorting to words that make us lesser for using them.

All of us should be smart enough to not break out into a curse-word laiden inappropriate speech-fest. But sometimes in the type-what-I-feel Twitter world - - - we just vent red hot magma that we'd never use otherwise.

Thank you.

Comments

[elfkat.livejournal.com]

Thank you for that.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

you are welcome Kat. I know that you are a big girl and can take care of yourself - but I had to speak up. It just makes me a little crazy how free we are to respond to these kinds of things in ways that don't help anyone.

[airporter.livejournal.com]

Your point is well taken, and since I've already proven I'm capable of doing just that, duly noted. :)

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

i didn't name name names or point people out - it was just a reminder that one thing doesn't have to equal another. :)

[airporter.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand. I have no issue with the reminder at all, lovely man. I'm quite capable of coherent discussion, argument, and even cursing without using foul language. The easy perjoratives are a lazy way out of a thoughtful response for me, and being reminded of it is a good thing.

[pagerbear.livejournal.com]

My dear mama, a lovely NC lady, used to say two wrongs don't make a right.

Forgive me...

[airporter.livejournal.com]

but three rights make a left

[squalidbear.livejournal.com]

"Well, isn't that nice" as the Southern ladies say.

To a certain extent, I'm a bit of a believer in (i) you reap what you sow, and (ii) (s)he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

However I'd save it until I saw her on fire by the side of the road.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

it passed by a clear majority - which makes her misguided rant even more irrelevant and out-of-touch. What makes it worse is she could point to ABCNews or Salon.com for articles for source material.

[ruralrob.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree with you Robert. It's very unflattering behaviour.

[zbear20.livejournal.com]

Was Congresswoman Fox disrespectful and perhaps ignorant?
I'm curious why you chose to put the word "perhaps" in that sentence. I had to go find the clip of this person to see what you were talking about. So she says that Matthew Shepard's murder wasn't a hate crime, had nothing to do with his sexuality? It was just a robbery gone wrong? Perhaps Fred Phelps is ignorant, maybe if we treat him with respect, listen to where he's coming from and understand his point, but try to educate him with the facts, maybe he will come around? Would you say that Bishop Richard Williamson's Holocaust denial statements and beliefs are "perhaps" wrong? At what point will you acknowledge that these people's disrespect and venom, their wanting to re-write history discount our rights, our humanity and our dignity? Their attitudes and their "my was is the only way" attitude are worse than any words I can use to describe them.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I am not suggesting that the congresswoman is correct. Not in the slightest. I wouldn't put her 50 seconds on the house floor in the same light as Phelps or Williamson.

You make it sound like I'm in agreement with her.

I'm just saying take task with her words - her actions - her ignorance. If the only response we can come up with is "fucking cunt" - then we lose.

I'm not suggesting that what she said was anything short of abhorrent. But deciding that the only thing we want to say in response to a congresswoman is from the get go - sexist and disrespectful than we are no better. I am saying the dialogue has to be above that - even if they are not.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I also wonder - what are we doing other than just posting the video to our blogs and calling her names. Did we take the time as a community today to email the California congressmen that voted YES on the Hate Crimes bill? Did we email and write letters to Pelosi asking for some sort of action on Rep. Foxx's comments?

I know you don't just sit on your hands politically - but I worry that many of our community do just that.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

I crossposted (just now) an op-ed from Huffington Post that really says it all. and does so without using one power removing slur.

http://low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com/1090966.html

[sierrabiker.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard of Congresswoman Fox until I read this tonight. So, I went back and listened to what she said. If one looks at any number of videos or is at all familiar with Matthew Shepard's murder and the torture they put Matthew through, it is obvious it wasnt about robbery. It was about pure hate. While I wouldn't call Congresswoman Fox a cunt, I would say she is a liar, and I would not care if that is disrespectful. She clearly disrespected Matthew Shepard.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

and calling her a liar - is a above-board and respectful appraisal of her performance on the house floor. I would totally agree with it.

What I was responding to was the posts on Facebook and LJ that had the embedded video and "fucking bitch" or "cunt" -- and nothing else to say.

[sierrabiker.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if its one's intent to influence others, then its far more effective to appear to be on the sidewalk instead of in the gutter.

One night in late October,
When I was far from sober,
Returning with my load with manly pride,
My feet began to stutter,
So I lay down in the gutter,
And a pig came near and lay down by my side;
A lady passing by was heard to say:
"You can tell a man who boozes,
By the company he chooses,"
And the pig got up and slowly walked away.

[tonethbone.livejournal.com]

Of course I dislike this woman
and the C word is never appropriate
BUT...if everyone who uses the word "bitch" is being disrespectful to women...then probably 99 percent of the gay community is frequently guity of disrespect

The truth is ...the words bitch ...and bitchy...have largey lost their connection to just the one sex...and usually just mean malicious, spiteful, domineering, intrusive, hateful and unpleasant

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

people on use the Cword when they want to be inappropriate when they want to use a word that "harms" the recipient.

Language is tricky - it constantly evolves. When I was a kid - bitch was an extremely inappropriate word.

I am apalled at Rep. Foxx's behavior - but using the Cword helps nobody. It just takes away any effective argument power away. It's just not right.

Thanks for replying....

[tonethbone.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you ...on the C word

[blt4success66.livejournal.com]

So I can't call her a "stinker" either? Geez, you take the fun out of it all.

Seriously though, the "C" word is inappropriate at any time.

HUGS!

[bigbeard61.livejournal.com]

I guess I understand the urge to respond to such hostility/meanspiritedness/ignorance with the harshest invective one can think of. However, I've often thought of the illogic of these linguistic choices. What words would one apply to a man under the same circumstances? Dickwad... Asshole... Fuckface? As a sex-affirming gay man, these are all things about which, in reality, I feel positive (just as one assumes straight men actually like cunts). It's a paradox: there is a psycholgical need, when one is so offended, to offend in turn, but our options are themselves ethically and logically problematic. I know: how about Asswipe? It's satisfyingly scatological, nice and degrading, gender neutral, and not at all a secret turn-on...

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

While I can understand the reflex - I just have trouble when a) its a persons only response and/or b) its a lot more powerful to take her to task for her actions and words; but my opening up with a curse or derogatory term, you lose any power you have to argue. IT's like when Perez Hilton (the blogger) called Miss California a bitch. He was great - and on topic and smart - until he called her a bitch. Bitch isn't as bad (imho) or as directly hurtful as calling a woman a cunt. but in the same vein - Hilton lost his power when instead of remaining above board, he called her a bitch. ......

as sierrabiker said said - "...if its one's intent to influence others, then its far more effective to appear to be on the sidewalk instead of in the gutter..."

[bigbeard61.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I guess hurling invectives into thin air (or among trusted friends who understand what you're doing) can be an appropriate release, but making a public record of one's anger (which the internet makes it staggeringly easy to do) only harms one's credibility.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

and to address the specific question in your comment? There isn't a matching word for the men. Why? because men are pretty much in charge - the white ones anyway. Derogatory terms like 'nigger' and 'cunt' come from a power structure that allows for words that damage. A white guy - is on top of the power pyramid - and the repercussions for damaging him come fast and swift. but words - hurtful slang terms; are usually designed to hurt. and used against minority voices with no recourse.

[jawnbc]

I agree 100%. Asshole, scumbag and piece of shite are all gender neutral.

[low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com]

but why lower ourselves to use any of those terms. I just posted an op-ed from Huffington Post that says what a terrible person she is without falling back on name-calling. (http://low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com/1090966.html)

but my more immediate post that you are commenting on was about using words like cunt or bitch or other sexist inappropriate language out in the open on forums like Facebook or LJ without any thought to how it is perceived. It was less about Rep. Foxx - and more about using language that is sexist and degrading in public forums.

The C-Bomb is never used without an intent to harm. and I don't know a single woman in my life that doesn't simply respond with disgust when men around them throw the word around like "asshole" or "scumbag" because for them it has no damage factor. It's really easy for white guys to say cunt over and over and really casually - but I'm suggesting we think about how our female friends and fellow LJers or Facebook'ers view it and that it makes more of a statement about the person saying it - than about the person it's targeting, even if the target is a neoconservative windbag.

[tinman11201.livejournal.com]

Thank you for stating the obvious, people sometimes forget in the heat of an angry reaction. You are most wise my friend.