thoreau: (Default)
[personal profile] thoreau
The name calling and disrespect going on over this is far more disappointing than the whole Rick Warren affair itself.

I'm glad that we're angry about Prop 8 - and that we're not going to take it laying down. Now we can join the other 27 states in the fight against the religious right.

Some of our brothers and sisters have lived in states that have had anti-gay amendments on their constitutions for over a decade before it ever happened to California. So lets not treat Prop 8 like it's a new battle just because it finally happened to us in the supposed liberal bubble of California. Hawaii's constitution was amended in 1998 and 24 other states leading up to the amending of Idaho's constitution in 2006.

It's about time everyone united behind the cause of taking discrimination out of constitutions in ANY state.

We should be very angry this is happening ANYWHERE in the U.S. - - but am I going to be angry precisely the way you are? probably not.

Stephen [livejournal.com profile] dakoopst said it best on his journal today:

"I see a lot of anger directed at those who oppose gay marriage. I fully understand that anger and share it, though it manifests more as disappointment for me.

I also see a lot of anger directed at those who aren't angry enough at those who oppose gay marriage, that we should all scream and yell and hate right back, because that's what we're feeling from the other side.

I understand the sentiment, I really do, but let me, as courteously as I can, call bullshit.

I will no longer be made to feel guilty for not expressing my anger in the way you do, for not saying "fuck them" with my words and actions. I will not allow you to dictate that I should get in people's faces and scream, that I should mock them as ignorant and backward, that I should cut off contact until they see things my way. I will not be bullied into giving up on the President-Elect before he even takes office because of a choice with which I do not agree.

I will, instead, do *my* form of activism -- sitting down and talking with people, being out and known, and trying to get them to see my side. Relationship activism. Because THAT, my friends, is what I'm good at.

There are places and times for the angry, confrontational people to shine, and they should. Sometimes you have to get into people's faces, and I hope those who are good at that will do so.

There are also places for those of us who don't express that way to be equally effective... So don't lecture me on not being angry enough. You do your part, I'll do mine -- and together, TOGETHER, we can make this country see the right way to go."


Well said, Stephen.

Date: 2008-12-19 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] truthfeather.livejournal.com
This is well done. Pardon me a moment.

Date: 2008-12-19 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bear-left.livejournal.com
Kudos & hugs to both you & Stephen.

Date: 2008-12-19 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joebehrsandiego.livejournal.com
Well said by both of you. Many thanks.

Date: 2008-12-20 12:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwynym.livejournal.com
I agree - and Stephen gave voice to that which I was feeling as well.

Cue Sinatra - "I did it my way"

Date: 2008-12-20 12:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] designerotter.livejournal.com
I absolutely agree with Stephen and you ... thanks for the perspective.

Date: 2008-12-20 12:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] grizzlyzone.livejournal.com
Would I be way out of line if I said, "Ditto?"

Date: 2008-12-20 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ironbark.livejournal.com
Ian, shakes head in bewilderment.

Date: 2008-12-20 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com
believe me :) its seriously a head shaking moment.

Date: 2008-12-20 01:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ironbark.livejournal.com
I shake my head because there is so much good and at the same time so much that is awful about american politics. I do think it is in need of a major overhaul. The system was brilliant and revolutionary in the 18th century but it is not working in the 21st.

Date: 2008-12-20 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] low-fat-muffin.livejournal.com
well - honestly I'll disagree. I think that American politics are working just fine. Its just the shoot-from-the-hip damnation people flare up into over the tiniest of things. and how they turn on people that don't agree with them to the letter.

Date: 2008-12-20 01:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ironbark.livejournal.com
So you think that a system devised for the "pony express" era is also the best in the era of mass communication?

Date: 2008-12-20 01:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quirkstreet.livejournal.com
Just writing to say I read this and I'm substantially in agreement.

Date: 2008-12-20 01:39 am (UTC)

Date: 2008-12-20 03:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] audrabaudra.livejournal.com
A Progressive Case for Rick Warren at The Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/19/AR2008121902414.html?nav=hcmodule

Key paragraph:

"Rick Warren is the one who is making the bigger statement here. In no uncertain terms, the best known pastor of our time will be telling his followers and fellow evangelicals that there is nothing ungodly about a president who believes that government shouldn't interfere with a woman's right to choose and that gays and lesbians deserve the protection of our laws as much as any other American. That's a moment progressives should celebrate."

Date: 2008-12-20 04:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dakoopst.livejournal.com
That's an interesting perspective.

Date: 2008-12-20 09:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] audrabaudra.livejournal.com
Yeah, but I'm not sure it's agreeable. Progressives should dance in the streets because Warren gets to be in the spotlight, just behaving long enough to give the presidential benediction?

Warren's hardest-core followers are spinning this the opposite way, I'd think--Warren's views are being given a national spotlight, and the nod from Obama will give their views more credence.

Date: 2008-12-20 05:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dakoopst.livejournal.com
Thank you, Robert.

It's ridiculous to have to fight this war on two separate fronts -- one without, one within.

Here's hoping we can learn that unity doesn't mean uniformity.
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